Q: I’m reading the Krishnamurti book, and I had an understanding when they said to let go of all attachments. At first, I felt exhilarated. And then I went to, it’s not available to me.
Why did you go there? What was the thought on that?
Q: Because there are many significant things about myself I’ve tried to let go of for decades and haven’t.
But what was the understanding that you had, that brief moment of understanding that you didn’t have before?
Q: Well, I wouldn’t say that it was an understanding. It was more of a plugging into an awareness of the truth of that statement. And what it does is it puts everything within my power, really. If I could not be attached to any of the things that caused me to be worried or anxious or unhappy, I would be in a much better place.
There’s a significant difference between someone living an ascetic life—like a swami or guru whose entire life is towards spiritual awakening—and someone living in modern society. The ascetics have chosen a life that naturally has fewer worries. Either they are part of an ashram where all their needs are met, or if they’re a sannyasi who chooses not to be part of anything, has nothing and begs for food. They’ve removed all the typical attachments that entangle the rest of of us: love, family, possessions, career, identity, etc.
Let’s put it in the context of highlanders and lowlanders. Those living within the rules and regulations of society— including culture, family, all of that—are set up in such a way that even if they try to let go of attachments, they’ll get pulled back in. There are countless traps, making it a much more challenging path. It’s not impossible, but it can feel that way.
Q: I think for most people living regular lives, as you say, enlightenment isn’t realistically available. They won’t give up their families, jobs, or stop worrying about money or putting their kids through college.
For the Western student, when I talk about letting go of attachments, I don’t mean abandoning family, work or responsibilities. I’m talking about letting go of the attachment to the outcome of those. Let go of trying to manipulate the results. If you’re truly present in the now, there’s nothing to manipulate.
When we reframe this concept in terms that a Western person can understand, it’s much less intimidating and much more doable.
Q: I think he may have spoken to that or I also went there in my mind. That it’s the outcomes. Also, I think, similarly, it’s the need you feel to maybe try to change it…
That’s exactly it—manipulation. You want it to go the way you want it to go. The attachment is to the value you’ve placed on the outcome.
Q: Yeah, well we’ve attached values to so much in this life.
We’re trained to attach values. When Krishnamurti says it all just is, remember, he was completely taken care of and supported. That doesn’t mean he didn’t have the responsibility of being the head of that organization. Religious institutions remove these concerns for their leaders because they are the hardest to overcome. So they get such a huge advantage by having their needs taken care of.
Consider celibacy—it reduces personal attachment to “me and mine.” When doing “God’s work” and believing we are all one, it helps to remove as much of the personal emotional preference and attachment. It helps to prevent the “us and them” mentality. Celibacy also helps with detaching from bodily sensations. It’s the same thing with simple food. Some believe celibacy transforms physical energy into spiritual energy.
The Western definition of pleasure, enjoyment, peace, and happiness is deeply connected to sensation. For a spiritual person, it’s about present awareness—not creating chemical reactions in the brain or emotional responses based on judgment. It’s about being happy without the “because.”
Q: This is similar to what you’re saying. I think for the Western mind, the ideas of meditation and becoming part of the all-that-is, there are two ways in which it’s not attractive at all to most people. First, you’re going to a place where activity is not the point. Doing things, excitement, interest—all that is not it. It is to go to a place where all of that is emptied out, and there’s a space and a quiet. Second, there’s this emerging into a greater whole, which goes against our idea of individuation. It’s seen as “losing the self,” and I think that’s not attractive to a lot of people.
That’s actually a misunderstanding. You don’t lose the self—you gain the greater self. Yes, initially, it’s perceived as a loss of identity. It’s the same reason people fear death: “I lose myself, I no longer exist.” There isn’t an awareness that the true “I” can’t be killed; it can’t die.
Once you can create those shifts through these awakening experiences for people, they’ll begin to understand how they need to change their definitions. That what they think is wrong, incorrect, or limiting. From this new perspective, it becomes much more appealing; it becomes its own driving force, and that becomes all you want.
Q: But what about those who just want to feel less pain without making major life changes?
Exactly. Some people simply say, “Help me feel less pain. I don’t want to change my life. I want to stay in this mundane world with my cell phone and internet. I just want to feel less pain.” And that’s fine—that’s their doorway in. You give them exercises that help them make shifts to feel less pain.
The Western mind has another challenge: we’re taught to check things off the to-do list—”okay, once and done.” But spiritual practice is ongoing, every single day. That’s where discouragement creeps in. People ask: “How long do I need to do this for? How long do I need to meditate for? Is it 20 minutes, is it half an hour, is it twice a day, is it every day? And then how long after I meditate until I start feeling better? And then how long after I start meditating and feeling better before I start having experiences?”
So everything becomes about measuring time, and what can be checked off the to-do list. Rather than letting it flow in its nowness and experiencing it as a joy, people get stuck on whether they’re doing it right. They don’t feel certain about what they’re doing or even why they’re doing it. Except somebody told them it’s a good idea to meditate. It’s a stress reducer; that’s how Westerners are told to think about it. Same with yoga.
So that’s why it’s crucial to start people with simple exercises where they get an immediate hit right away of, “holy cow, all I had to do was look this way and I see this now and I experience this now and that took me five minutes. Okay, I’m in. What else can you show me that doesn’t take long to get?” You build on those successes so that they develop the stamina to do exercises that take longer than five minutes. Because there are exercises that are going to take years. But you can’t tell people that initially because they need an immediate reward to stay motivated to want to keep going.
Q: What’s the core issue here?
People are tired of intellectual understanding. There are too many empty words floating around. People are asking: “How is that making my life better? How is that removing pain? How is that making me develop skills that you tell me I need to develop, that intellectually I understand are possible but I don’t know how to do?”
The challenge is addressing two seemingly contradictory needs: “I want to be an individual” and “I need somebody to show me how to do this.” It’s about finding a way to get around “leave me alone” and “make me better.”
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